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Duke Nukem 4 Never?
May 16th 2009, 20:04 MSD by OmegaFoRCe According to Shacknews (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/58519) 3D Realms is officially closing doors. What can we learn from 3D Realms' departure from the industry? |
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Topic: Duke Nukem 4 Never?
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No, it isn't. Wrong again. "THE FUCKING KITTY LITTER FUCKING BOMB GHRHGURHGUHGRUGHRUGHURHGURHGHHGHUAHUHU KITTY" -- greg
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For me it was an action game. I loved that the game respected my lack of interest in its RPG elements and allowed me to just mostly run and gun. Pretty awesome in that respect, difficult to dislike a game that shapes itself to your needs. |
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#52 by gaggle Pretty awesome in that respect, difficult to dislike a game that shapes itself to your needs. It's not shaping itself to my needs!! <Hugin_len> Basically, cheesy doesn't have awful taste in music, he's simply very white.
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When your needs involve a clown, a hamster, and a half-gallon of astroglide, I can see why. REMEMbER DESCENT THE HIGHEST FORM of PATRIOTiC
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ME is a good game in which presentation and awesomeness carry it over the top to gaming greatness. Sure, it has some flaws, but it's damn fun and interesting. And maybe they decided having a thousand generic worlds to explore wasn't as useful in the second one... "some of those words want to be other words." - LP
"the concept that a happy worker is a productive worker is hardly an entry from Matt's Big Book Of Things The Fairies Said." - Dum |
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#11 by Paul Don't put too much credence in Derek Smart's legal analysis stated in his posts. Especially since he flat out gets some things wrong. He says Take2 offered to buy the Duke IP for $30 million, when what actually happened was they offered to sell back the publishing rights for $30 million. "I hope you one day decide to smarten the fuck up so I can stand to look at your posts." - gaggle
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Derek doesn't seem very smart to me. "assemblerer is like the dorkier male version of ryslin. His posts make my head hurt." -- Mister Nutty
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DNF going down the tubes is worth a post just for old time's sake. <honk> Hey everybody! |
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this doesn't seem right to me Wasn't scott on here talking about how much money they were getting from take two, and how great a deal it was for them? Also, WHY WON'T THEY DIE??? "Testiculos habet et bene pendentes" - "He has testicles, and they dangle nicely."
"LP, your big balls are a religion." - Jibble |
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Scott Miller full of shit? How could it be? "Bioshock, sadly, is no Painkiller." - BobJustBob
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Wasn't scott on here talking about how much money they were getting from take two, and how great a deal it was for them? Quick, to the CrapSifter!! We need to find these posts. Or at least, someone with some time on their hands does. When you've been sued, aren't you pretty much supposed to shut your mouth? Their lawyers must be having a fit. It has to be a sea of high-priced facepalms right now. |
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The studio did confirm that the DNF team has been let go, but expressed a desire to "co-create" games based on the character in the future. Bahahah! So they just nuked their dev team so they didn't actually ever have to produce something. Nice. No.
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Caryn, start here. It's good for laughs. 52 Weeks and Something's On Movie Blog
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My favorite Scott Miller quote: When people say something like this, they so clearly do not understand marketing at all, especially the principles of positioning. No character can ever topple Duke as the leading WASP action hero, just as no character will ever topple Lara Croft as the leading female action/adventurer. Think of these characters as the Coke and Pepsi of the game industry. These characters earned their leading spots by being the first of their kind, and by being great at what they do. Much like James Bond, who is the quintessential action spy -- there have many many attempts to top Bond but it will never be done, as he was the first and the first practically always wins (unless they self-destruct, but that's another story). Duke and Lara will be around 20 years from now, still the leading action gaming characters of their type. He wrote this in 2002. 52 Weeks and Something's On Movie Blog
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Here's another bit of comedy gold: I'm sure you know a game wins. Most hit movies cost $40 plus million, and often much higher, so the studio is in a big hole to begin with. DNF will cost $5 million tops to make on all platforms, and make the publisher at least $200 million gross across all platforms. So right away the game has a huge advantage. So based on LP's linked article, Scott was only off by $15 million dollars. 52 Weeks and Something's On Movie Blog
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Here's another interesting comment: FYI, if you read the company's annual report, you'll see that Take2 paid a $12 million fee to acquire the publishing rights to DNF, and the first half was paid upon signing, with the second half due upon the game's release. This is an unrecoupable fee, not a recoupable advance. This fee does not affect royalties. And 3DR still owns the franchise. This makes it sounds like TakeTwo only paid $6 mil up front, and the other $6 would be due when the game was finished. And is it me, or does it sound like 3DR got paid the 'fee'. 52 Weeks and Something's On Movie Blog
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One m ore thing- I read where Scott recently refuted the rumor that TakeTwo offered 3DR $30 mil for the Duke franchise, basically saying, 'If they had offered it, we would have taken it in a heartbeat". If you look at the link I provided for Caryn, the first link is Scott bragging that 3DR was offered $80 mil for the Duke franchise, but that was almost like an insult. It looks like the value of the Duke Nukem brand resembles a lot of peoples' 401k plans right now. 52 Weeks and Something's On Movie Blog
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Nice finds Yot. On the other hand, it's clear I have no native talent with this game and the progression is slow. I still can't go halfway down the set list (sorted by difficulty) without hitting a brick wall on Hard. Some stuff just seems like my brain flat out can't grip it. For example, for the life of me I can't pass Go Your Own Way by Fleetwood Mac because of that rapid series of B+O, O notes. My brain just can't figure out how to tell my fingers to hit those for some reason. Yeah, this is me. It doesn't matter how much my wife and i play, we've both kind of hit a wall. I still have fun, but I'm not getting any better and some songs and difficulties are just impossible no matter how much I play. |
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Hey guys! I'm still in China. Been in Yangshuo for a few days. The natural scenery is fucking wonderful, but unfortunately it's raining all the time. That does give the place a mysterious air but it makes it less appealing to go bike riding. Yesterday I did rent a mountain bike and drove to a place called Moon Hill, at the top of which stands a rock with a hole in it (think donut shaped) and after a steep climb you end up with a great view from the donut hole. There I met a German girl who's travelling alone as well and we decided to go to the Water Cave nearby. Along the way there's a million 'official Water Cafe ticket office, no really: this one is the real thing!' but we ignored those and drove 4km through lush countryside and poor farmers villages. There was no official ticket office at the cave itself, but we haggled the price with the guide and ended up paying 100 yuan for the full-length tour instead of the 180 yuan starting price. By the time I came back to Yangshuo, I was soaking wet and covered in mud. But a fucking great day it was. Too bad my shoes are still wet, I wanted to go biking northwards today but of course it is still raining as hell and my raincoat and backpack rain cover are still wet.. "IT consultant of perfect lovemaking art."
- randomly generated subject header of a spam e-mail |
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Oh and I have some new pictures up on Flickr. I'm in an internet cafe that for some reason has poor downstream, but a crazy upstream pipe. "IT consultant of perfect lovemaking art."
- randomly generated subject header of a spam e-mail |
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Moar gifs and sordid stories about the German girl kthnx |
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Goddamn I hate you, Gunp01nt.* *envy "THE FUCKING KITTY LITTER FUCKING BOMB GHRHGURHGUHGRUGHRUGHURHGURHGHHGHUAHUHU KITTY" -- greg
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Based on GB's press release, it looks like GB - once again - is going to try and play 3d Realms as the David fighting TT the Goliath. While this may be technically true, GB screwed up in that there was no logical business reason to expend $20 million dollars to get to only this point. I don't see why GB thought TT would fix his 12 years of poor planning and mistakes by injecting another 5 million into his failed business model. Funding is not that easy right now and investors aren't that stupid (even in Texas). I hope SM has taken over the ship. I could be wrong, but it looks like SM finally convinced GB to convert 3d Realms from a development company to an oversight company who contracts with proven development companies to create games based on IP owned by 3d Realms. |
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Awesome pictures Gunp01nt. |
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#64 by yotsuya When people say something like this, they so clearly do not understand marketing at all, especially the principles of positioning. No character can ever topple Duke as the leading WASP action hero, just as no character will ever topple Lara Croft as the leading female action/adventurer. This is a great quote because I think it illustrates how much Scott doesn't understand his market. I'm trying to think of how many games in PC/360/PS3 market are character driven to the point to be the primary driver in sales. Checking list on wikipedia I can come up with one title that people would buy because of the main character, Metal Gear 4 (Halo may be debatable, but what kind of character is Master Chief?). To think that an IP would be the main driver of games sales and not gameplay shows how much he missed the point. Fuck, Square makes (almost) each FF with all new characters and still sells the fuck out of it. I left Nintendo out because their IP certainly drives sales (Mario, Pokeman, Zelda, etc.). <Hugin_len> Basically, cheesy doesn't have awful taste in music, he's simply very white.
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You guys know I sponsor a video game club, right? I mentioned the closing of 3DR to the students the other day, and all I got were blank stares. Duke is something their dads/uncles played back in the day. They're all about Gears, Halo, and whatever fighting game is all the rage. They 'know' about Duke, but could not care less about the IP. 52 Weeks and Something's On Movie Blog
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Scott is right that Duke is iconic, but not in the way that Bond is iconic. The sales figures on the shitty Duke titles that were cranked out over the years show that his impression of Duke's ability to move product is a bit overstated. Duke is closer to Dumb & Dumber than James Bond. Lots of people experienced it, lots of people still quote it, but no one bothered with the shitty decade-late sequel. |
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jjohnsen (#68): Yeah, this is me. It doesn't matter how much my wife and i play, we've both kind of hit a wall. I still have fun, but I'm not getting any better and some songs and difficulties are just impossible no matter how much I play. Really? I'm still getting better, even though I've been playing for years. Just last night I got five stars on Sorrow for the first time and hit over 95% of the notes. It was the first time I really got the weird strumming pattern and didn't feel like I was fighting it. I play on Expert almost exclusively (although there are some songs I can't beat). I've heard that playing drums makes you a better guitarist, maybe that's the difference? It's entirely possible that you've reached your ceiling, but my experience has been that if you just keep playing and don't worry about it, you get better without even noticing. "I hope you one day decide to smarten the fuck up so I can stand to look at your posts." - gaggle
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I haven't reached a ceiling, since like I said I'm getting better. It's just really slowly and beyond a certain point on the set list I'd have to just go into practice mode to play a song over and over again to get past it. Not that fun. Plus I don't think watching Youtube videos of people FC'ing stuff on Expert helps. But like I said, there's still plenty of DLC in my skill range waiting to be purchased, and I'm going to be buying drums soon. So I still love the game. |
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#75 by CheesyPoof Checking list on wikipedia God, that list is illuminating. Looking over the numbers is interesting, then you get to the Nintendo section and the Wii section in particular and it's shocking. |
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Putting Wii Sports on the list is cheating. |
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It's amazing that the top 20 unbundled of all time is 17 Nintendo titles, then Gran Turismo 3, GTA:SA, and Gran Turismo 1. |
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#81 by Jibble Putting Wii Sports on the list is cheating. What is good about it, though, it give a baseline of how many console are out there and why kind of penetration some of the titles achieved. <Hugin_len> Basically, cheesy doesn't have awful taste in music, he's simply very white.
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#82 by Jibble GTA:SA People bought GTA:SA because of the awesome iconic character of what his face, the black guy*, who also blazed across gamers TV's in GTA3 and GTA:VC. Character is everything! *I honestly can't remember the guys name right now and I played the game 2x on PS2, and 100% on the PC. <Hugin_len> Basically, cheesy doesn't have awful taste in music, he's simply very white.
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I had to look it up. Carl. |
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aka C.J. |
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Now I remember! Thanks. I wasn't even motivated after making that post to look it up. <Hugin_len> Basically, cheesy doesn't have awful taste in music, he's simply very white.
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I hope 3drealms is buried, and stays that way. The company and the companies supporting it are a symbol of all that is bad with the game industry. I have no idea how many new and innovative titles that could have been made with the good money TT threw after the bad money. Of course, it would most probably have been spent on just more generic action titles - but at least we could have played them. There's a very short, and very simple answer, no matter what spin comes flying out of Broussard/Miller; you haven't released a game since 97. "Dort, wo man Bücher verbrennt, verbrennt man auch am Ende Menschen."
- Heinrich Heine |
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#88 by mgns a symbol of all that is bad with the game industry. Well, not ALL that is bad. You can't lay crunch time at their feet, for example. Or releasing a bad game, for that matter. |
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Oh man, awesome find, yot. That made my morning to read. |
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Fair enough. They're not to blame for that. But even though 3dr didn't invent bad games as we know them, they sure as shit revelled in them enough. And crunch is a consequence of bad planning, something 3dr seems to be familiar with. For a symbol, they'll do just fine. "Dort, wo man Bücher verbrennt, verbrennt man auch am Ende Menschen."
- Heinrich Heine |
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mgns (#91): And crunch is a consequence of bad planning, something 3dr seems to be familiar with. Yeah, this really seems like a different symptom of the same problem. The reason most teams with poor planning and project management go into crunch is because they have deadlines they have to meet. Removing those deadlines won't deal with the underlying poor management and planning, but it would remove crunch. "I hope you one day decide to smarten the fuck up so I can stand to look at your posts." - gaggle
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I have no evidence for this other than my own prejudiced view of 3dr, but I'm not going to let that stop me. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if they actually did crunch anyway "just because it's cool." "Dort, wo man Bücher verbrennt, verbrennt man auch am Ende Menschen."
- Heinrich Heine |
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This is the internet, sir. If you had evidence we'd kick you off. "I hope you one day decide to smarten the fuck up so I can stand to look at your posts." - gaggle
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Caryn- Thanks. It's a fascinating read, isn't it? I bet most of us (Scott included) figured back in 2002 that Duke was at the most a year out. 52 Weeks and Something's On Movie Blog
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#75 by CheesyPoof To think that an IP would be the main driver of games sales and not gameplay shows how much he missed the point. Your missing the part he was wrong about there. He wasn't totally wrong about the IP being important (just look at the number of sequels on the list) rather he was wrong that the main character was the single most important defining factor of the IP. Don't forget garnishes such as: Fish shaped solid waste.
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#96 by None-1a Your missing the part he was wrong about there. He wasn't totally wrong about the IP being important (just look at the number of sequels on the list) rather he was wrong that the main character was the single most important defining factor of the IP. Yes, I conflated IP and character. Certainly Halo has IP assets that help Halo 3 sell millions, but it's not because of Master Chief. Regardless, I think we can safely say that "when it's done" is a horrible software methodology. <Hugin_len> Basically, cheesy doesn't have awful taste in music, he's simply very white.
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Yeah, I agree, Cheesy. After a while, people just don't care anymore. They missed a whole generation of gamers. A kid that's 16 now was 3 when DN3 came out. They aren't looking forward to DNF. Someone who was 16 back then is now almost 30, and they probably have a different set of priorities now. 52 Weeks and Something's On Movie Blog
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"When it's done" can only be said for things that "will be done." |
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CheesyPoof (#97): Yes, I conflated IP and character. Certainly Halo has IP assets that help Halo 3 sell millions, but it's not because of Master Chief. The point about IP generally is valid too. Or perhaps just the value of their IP. Namely, you can't stick your character's head on shovelware and not release a core game for 12 years as a business model. People complain that Mario gets stuck in everything and they don't release enough core games, but the reason those side games sell is that they are fun games with Mario branding, they aren't shit in a box with a character's head on it. "I hope you one day decide to smarten the fuck up so I can stand to look at your posts." - gaggle
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