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Remember when the Wii was the future of gaming?
January 26th 2010, 01:02 MSK by TreeFrog Attitudes on the 'crap broadly reflect what I hear from my Wii-owning friends and from what little of the gaming press I read - the honeymoon's over and divorce is in the air. What happened? Is it a shortage of games with any depth, since it's cheaper and easier to produce "party game" shovelware? Is the platform's limited horsepower too big an obstacle for devs capable of producing A^64 games? Is motion control just not that big of a deal after all? And what does this mean for future hardware like Natal? |
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Topic: Remember when the Wii was the future of gaming?
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Ooh that death pause in NSMBW is a killer. Literally. It killed me a whole bunch of times. I find myself playing the Wii less but there is still fun to be had there. Like everyone has said, it seems that few devs can come up with good uses for the motion controls. Compare the state of Wii games with the iPhone -- sure there's a much lower barrier to entry there, but people have done some amazing things with just multitouch. With the Wii they mostly just shovel over ports and replace buttons with waggling. In those cases I'd rather just play the pretty versions, thanks. BUYBUYBUY
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it's not irrelevant to you at all, and Natal is why. Motion control is here to stay, and the Wii drove that. Whether we want it or not, really. It is mostly irrelevant to me. It's only relevant to me in the fact that MS* is devoting R&D dollars to Natal and not Xbox Next, but considering that I'm still happy with the games on the 360 it's a moot issue. Just because MS is developing Natal does not mean that I will get it, or use it, or enjoy it. It's become super relevant when the games that I want to play are not being made, or are being bastardized for some new thing and suck. However, I do not expect that to happen. *And Sony and whatever their arm flapping program is. <Hugin_len> Basically, cheesy doesn't have awful taste in music, he's simply very white.
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I really like SonyBalls. I mean, as a name for their product. You know. blog | Twitter | The Psychology of Gaming
"It was a little hard to tell how bad I was bleeding on account of the salsa" -- Jibble |
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The Wii was supposed to get us up off the couch and swinging around with great hilarity Muh? It was supposed to do what to the who now? |
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#20 by Jamie I really like SonyBalls. I mean, as a name for their product. You know. I'm going to go ahead and call that firstsies, since Google is telling me no one else has coined it yet. SonyBalls is now copyright Jibble, 2010. Sue me for it, bitches. |
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#21 by gaggle The Wii was supposed to get us up off the couch and swinging around with great hilarity Muh? It was supposed to do what to the who now? It was supposed to change the way we play video games. It did so, three or four times. The rest has just been "button = waggle". |
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Jibble (#17): The topic is fine. It's positing that the good will and excitement that a lot of gamers had about the Wii has waned due to it not being able to live up to (arguably inflated) expectations. This, and CheesyPoof (#19): Just because MS is developing Natal does not mean that I will get it, or use it, or enjoy it. that. Motion control is epic win for Nintendo; I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's going to be a disaster for MS and SonyBalls (tm 2010 JibbleCorp), and they're each going to have to desperately spin their belated leaps at the bandwagon as a break-even. Who does motion control appeal to? Who buys 360s and PS3s? Who is going to fork out MORE MONEY on top of a more expensive console to get something the Wii has for free? I'm picturing this as the worst Venn diagram ever. I don't see the vast numbers of Wii owners as a new market for "gaming". They're something else. Wii is a whole new field, it's not a gateway drug. "Don't try to take cover by the legs of my walker. It will not go well for you." - Shadarr
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TreeFrog (#24): Who is going to fork out MORE MONEY on top of a more expensive console to get something the Wii has for free? This. Nintendo still has first-mover advantage. People who want to waggle can already do it with their Wii, a me-too product is not the way to catch the market leader. "I hope you one day decide to smarten the fuck up so I can stand to look at your posts." - gaggle
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But Sony's wand provides 1:1 movement by default, so when you raid the police locker room and get the purple dildo and beat the cops to death with it, you are actually swinging the dildo. BUYBUYBUY
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That... might actually sell some hardware. "Don't try to take cover by the legs of my walker. It will not go well for you." - Shadarr
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The only way to catch the market leader is to do it better and make good software to back it up. Also, the market leader has to fuck up something fierce. The problem is that Nintendo already hit the new market so SonyBalls (© 2010 JibbleCorp) and Natal are stuck playing catch-up. To see how that's going to work out for them, you can look about as far as anything that's tried to go head to head with the iPhone. They're not going to sell a 360 or a PS3 (plus peripherals) to the nursing home that bought a Wii so they could "bowl". At current prices, they're also not going to snag any new adopters. Their major market is essentially a subset of their existing market. Families that own a 360/PS3 but no Wii might buy some waggle peripherals. Aside from that? Not so much, unless they deliver on the promise that the Wii had at launch. I don't know if that's even really possible, since much of it is based on people's unrealistic imagination. |
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They shouldn't even try to catchup, IMO, but it's a console arms race. Nobody wants it, but they have to have it because of the other guy. They're both going to be behind Nintendo because of some fellow named Mario. <Hugin_len> Basically, cheesy doesn't have awful taste in music, he's simply very white.
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Natal is going to do fine, it'll let your girlfriend navigate Netflix and the avatar customization store, and your kids can spaz out in front of the TV doing shadowpuppets. It'll be pushed heavily and for a cheap price, Microsoft wants you to have this. It won't impact us much outside of Bob getting one at launch day and run through a list of minigames that range from shitty to moderately fun. He'll also play a couple hardcore games with Natal support and proclaim their grenade-throwing gesture or whatever kinda novel but ultimately pointless. The Sony SonyBalls™ will fail to capture a large marketshare, none of us will get it and six months later it'll be thoroughly dismissed to the position of the current EyeToy segment. It'll be the superior technology and fail nonetheless (Fail as far as not becoming mainstream, a couple franchises will keep it alive and they'll eventually make their money back) THE TRUTH HAS BEEN SPOKEN! |
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The truth is that of the E3 demos, or whenever it was, I was more impressed with the SonyBalls project than with Natal. They're both hoo-haa, though. <Hugin_len> Basically, cheesy doesn't have awful taste in music, he's simply very white.
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I'm more likely to buy the Sony one at launch. Natal is thus far completely uninteresting. BUYBUYBUY
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I'm not really interested in either. Motion control will suffer the same death as virtual reality. No one will give a shit about it in five years because it will always be easier to press a button to move left on the screen than it will be to make a gesture to the left. Especially if you have to do it 100 times to browse the Netflix store. |
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Especially if you have to do it 100 times to browse the Netflix store. I hope I can get the Natal treadmill so that instead of arm flapping I can get up and walk through the store and pretend it was like Blockbuster of so long ago, except everything will be instock. My only regret is that Netflix won't have a swinging door section like an old tyme video store to check out. <Hugin_len> Basically, cheesy doesn't have awful taste in music, he's simply very white.
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Treadmills are last century. These days it's all about having a 20 foot ball to walk around in so you can move in any direction and have it feel real. Be on the lookout for SonyBigBalls in 2013. |
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#12 by LPMiller I've never noticed a pause when someone dies. Really? Maybe that feature didn't make it into your version. There is a slight pause anytime someone else dies, which really screws me up if I'm in the middle of timing jumps, fireballs or pretty much anything else. I know I'm not imagining it because someone on the 4 guys 1 up podcast was complaining about the same thing, |
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It was really noticeable for us as well. It adds up to long delays that easily screw up your own timing, resulting in yet more delays as everyone gets hit in turn. But I still enjoyed the hell out of our coop experience. |
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#36 by jjohnsen #12 by LPMiller I've never noticed a pause when someone dies. Really? Maybe that feature didn't make it into your version. There is a slight pause anytime someone else dies, which really screws me up if I'm in the middle of timing jumps, fireballs or pretty much anything else. I know I'm not imagining it because someone on the 4 guys 1 up podcast was complaining about the same thing, I've never noticed it, now I'll have to watch for it. #24 by TreeFrog Jibble (#17): The topic is fine. It's positing that the good will and excitement that a lot of gamers had about the Wii has waned due to it not being able to live up to (arguably inflated) expectations. This, and CheesyPoof (#19): Just because MS is developing Natal does not mean that I will get it, or use it, or enjoy it. that. Motion control is epic win for Nintendo; I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's going to be a disaster for MS and SonyBalls (tm 2010 JibbleCorp), and they're each going to have to desperately spin their belated leaps at the bandwagon as a break-even. Who does motion control appeal to? Who buys 360s and PS3s? Who is going to fork out MORE MONEY on top of a more expensive console to get something the Wii has for free? I'm picturing this as the worst Venn diagram ever. I don't see the vast numbers of Wii owners as a new market for "gaming". They're something else. Wii is a whole new field, it's not a gateway drug. Oh, i don't think they will be all that successful either, unless they become pack ins. But I do think they'll be in PS4 and Xbox 720 from the start. I mean, games sell hardware, not the other way around. As to the Wii - of course it's a gateway drug. A lot of kids are getting their first gaming experience on the Wii, just like a lot of kids got it on the NES. How is it NOT a gateway drug? I do agree it is also a different market. But that doesn't mean there won't be cross over. "Testiculos habet et bene pendentes" - "He has testicles, and they dangle nicely."
"LP, your big balls are a religion." - Jibble |
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I don't know smeg about Natal but I already know it will be overpriced to match Sony's superior, overpriced Balls (probably just $5 cheaper just for the sake of it). Parhelic Triangle is coming.
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Well it looks like I'll have more time to play with my Wii (and my Nintendo console too) in the upcoming weeks, as I got the new hotness in xbox failures, the E74 error. They added that to the RROD extended part of the warranty so it looks like I should be able to get it replaced for free, but still...fuck you very much Microsoft. If you're curious, I had a Falcon model, which was a step above launch, but a step below whatever they have out now; one of the xPUs was die shrunk but the other wasn't, on the new ones both the CPU and GPU are at 65nm. The Wii has met my personal expectations, but wildly exceeded my market expectations of course. I didn't play it as much as my 360, but I never really thought I would. I recognized that the machine isn't really meant for me, even when I bought it. The Wii was the console for playing with other people, the 360 was for me. The time between games I want is a little longer then I'm used to, but that was the first console I got on launch day so that was to be expected at least a little bit. Even so, I still have a respectable backlog of Wii games to get through. I am disappointed we haven't gotten much interesting experimentation from third party developers on the platform. I was hoping for more Boom Blox and No More Heroes, and less Wii Sports Copy and Call of Duty: Cut Down Edition. I think if Nintendo nurtured an XNA style development program that might help, but generally big name 3rd party publishers been content to either ape whatever Nintendo's doing, port a PS2 game, cut down a version of their 360/PS3 game, or add poorly thought out motion controls or overly complex control schemes to something that doesn't benefit from motion control. When they announced the "Revolution" it seemed obvious (I think I even posted about it here) that Nintendo was willingly segregating itself from the Xbox/PS portion of the market, but third parties seem intent on trying to keep a foot in both pools and shoehorning their existing game designs with waggle, then wondering why they don't sell. |
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I got an E74 yesterday too. MS doesn't replace it, though, they just "repair" it. I've had three E74s since September. In my case, my extended warranty kicks in because it's my fourth major failure, so I get a brand new XBox once MS verifies it is in fact broken. Then they ship the broken XBox back here, un-repaired. Then Future Shop sends the broken XBox to their insurance company. I'm pretty sure the whole thing is a scam set up by UPS. In the meantime, I'm spending all my time going on dates. "I hope you one day decide to smarten the fuck up so I can stand to look at your posts." - gaggle
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Good for you, man. Here's hoping you get a lot of something. Question- would it be worthwhile just going to see Victoria instead of Vancouver? I'm trying to plan my vacation and want to visit Canada, but aren't sure about time. 52 Weeks and Something's On Movie Blog
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Depends what you want to do. Victoria has a lot of ultra-touristy stuff like Butchart Gardens, tea at the Empress, Wax Museum, Miniature World and what-not, but otherwise they're pretty similar. If you wanted to go whale watching or hiking or or just wander around chinatown, they're about the same (and in fact, you could probably do all that in Seattle). The ferry ride itself is pretty scenic if it's warm enough to sit outside. "I hope you one day decide to smarten the fuck up so I can stand to look at your posts." - gaggle
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I wonder if this iPad can run Lightroom or some lite form of Photoshop? |
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iPad, huh? Based on what I can see it's essentially a giant iPod Touch. Not quite a laptop. blog | Twitter | The Psychology of Gaming
"It was a little hard to tell how bad I was bleeding on account of the salsa" -- Jibble |
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OMG SPOILARS! I'm just waiting for the video, whenever that gets dumped in some indeterminate amount of hours. |
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it's a 10 inch iPod Touch as far as I can tell. $499 is a lot cheaper than I was expecting though. |
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based on the price, I think Apple is aiming for both the Kindle crowd, and netbooks. 499 for 16GB seems pretty decent to me. "Testiculos habet et bene pendentes" - "He has testicles, and they dangle nicely."
"LP, your big balls are a religion." - Jibble |
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The 64GB is probably $10000000. |
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I intend to wait a month until the hype and the haters calm down and someone is able to voice a brief, balanced opinion. In the meantime I'll be on the lookout if Entourage eDGe is available in Europe. Parhelic Triangle is coming.
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I intend to wait a whole generation if I buy one at all. NEVER buy first gen gadgets. Let the early adopters work out the kinks first. blog | Twitter | The Psychology of Gaming
"It was a little hard to tell how bad I was bleeding on account of the salsa" -- Jibble |
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Pfff. And we're not talking about cyber implants yet. Parhelic Triangle is coming.
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Even. Parhelic Triangle is coming.
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#48 by LPMiller based on the price, I think Apple is aiming for both the Kindle crowd, and netbooks. 499 for 16GB seems pretty decent to me. Does it stream from your computer? Otherwise I don't see how the 16GB model would be good as anything BUT a reader. Photos, movies and music would fill up that 16 GB pretty fast. That being said, I've been wanting a Kindle for a while. I'd probably get this instead in the second generation. |
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Regarding the Wii: I remember one period after it had come out, I would often ride my pushbike over to a friends place to play wii bowling or wii sports generally. I had a wii too, it was just more fun to play with others. I remember him saying something grand like: "This is all the gaming I need now, the wii is the best console ever and is the future!" blah blah. Six months later he hated it, had it boxed up and was trying to sell it :) I turned my Wii on for the first time in a year or so recently to play New Super Mario, which has been pretty awesome fun. I'll definitely slog through it and finish it. After that game, I'm not sure what will keep the wii plugged in. |
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jjohnsen #48 by LPMiller based on the price, I think Apple is aiming for both the Kindle crowd, and netbooks. 499 for 16GB seems pretty decent to me. Does it stream from your computer? Otherwise I don't see how the 16GB model would be good as anything BUT a reader. Photos, movies and music would fill up that 16 GB pretty fast. That being said, I've been wanting a Kindle for a while. I'd probably get this instead in the second generation. Well, the presentation mentioned streaming iPhoto. But I have an iPod, I dunno why I'd put music on it. While I could see doing the occasional movie, I'd have no reason to just keep them on there, once I watched them. You have to look at it as an e-reader that does more then books, really. I'd have it in my car for reading, or use it at home for couch surfing, or something. I wouldn't use it for music. As it's close in price to the Kindle, that makes sense to me. I don't really like e-ink. "Testiculos habet et bene pendentes" - "He has testicles, and they dangle nicely."
"LP, your big balls are a religion." - Jibble |
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E-ink is god. BUYBUYBUY
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Meh iPad. <Hugin_len> Basically, cheesy doesn't have awful taste in music, he's simply very white.
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I'll buy one when it's cheaper, runs an open OS, and isn't made by Apple. I'll still play with it in the store though. "Don't try to take cover by the legs of my walker. It will not go well for you." - Shadarr
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Heh, the joke making the rounds now is that anyone who owns an iPod Touch can now brag about owning a "iPad Nano." blog | Twitter | The Psychology of Gaming
"It was a little hard to tell how bad I was bleeding on account of the salsa" -- Jibble |
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No multitasking, that seems a little weird. And does it really have no usb port? |
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I'm all over it once it gets an OLED display. |
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Thinking... |
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Can I tether my iPhone to it for intarweb connections anywhere? |
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Meh. iBook only available in the US, fo' shame! Boo. Down in front. Well that was kind of a big attraction for me, so it'll be interesting to see when that stuff appears in Europeland. I gotta say, one of the biggest questions I'm left with is the "scope" of the programs they intend for the iPad. If I can edit my iPhoto galleries and fiddle with iTunes smartlists that's great, I'm really turned on by the possibility of bringing one on vacation instead of my Macbook. But if they end up limiting the iPad apps to simple viewers like on the iPhone… well, it gets a lot less interesting imo. Their signals right now aren't clear to me yet: They'll launch iLife apps that lets you author documents, that indicates a willingness to let it be a device with desktop capabilities where appropriate. On the other hand the iPad iTunes and iPhoto descriptions sound to me a lot more like their iPhone counterparts with limited capabilities. Stuff like no multitasking is weird too, but there are so many rumors about the coming of multitasking that I'm willing to assume it's coming for both it and the iPhone. |
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With Bluetooth it sounds technically possible to tether to the iPhone. Or do they expect us to get two totally separate cellphone accounts? I think we'd all like to avoid that. |
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#65 by gaggle Their signals right now aren't clear to me yet: They'll launch iLife apps that lets you author documents, that indicates a willingness to let it be a device with desktop capabilities where appropriate. On the other hand the iPad iTunes and iPhoto descriptions sound to me a lot more like their iPhone counterparts with limited capabilities. Except there is no iLife, only iWork. So no photo editing. You can make a spreadsheet though if you're into that sort of thing while sitting on your couch. |
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